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General >> Rally >> Why low entries at Pines?

Message started by Peter K. on 11/28/17 at 17:31:26

Title: Why low entries at Pines?
Post by Peter K. on 11/28/17 at 17:31:26

Does anyone have an idea what is causing the dismal turnout at rally events? Especially in the 2wd category. I had considered getting my VW Golf back together but I wasn't convinced that was a good idea after attending Tall Pines this past weekend.

This conversation needs to happen, perhaps someone could point me in the correct direction as to what is happening these days in the CRC and regional series.


Title: Re: Why low entries at Pines?
Post by mirwin on 11/29/17 at 11:42:09

There's probably a combination of reasons that have added up to a decline over the years. I think having one more race out west 2 weeks after has kept the BC/AB based teams from making the trip.

In 2WD Martin retired last year after competing consistently for many years, Andrew K in his Focus has disappeared. Back in 2012 there were 5 Fiestas from outside Ontario that have not come back. Is it the economy and lack of money? Life changes and no time left to compete?

As a past competitor I'm sure insurance was a big problem for you. I tried last year to work on a reasonable solution but no regular insurance company will touch a car that is used for racing despite anything I do to explain how rally works.

Maybe one thing that would work is to reach out to all the drivers that have stopped to get their reasons and work on solutions.

Sorry for the rambling, just my view as an outsider in the sport. I'm sure someone like Ross can give a much better view on the situation.

Title: Re: Why low entries at Pines?
Post by RyanHuber on 12/02/17 at 17:47:15

Let's look at 2010 Pines results list of names, where I think Pines peaked.

Antoine L'Estage - active
Craig Henderson - retired, unsure reason
Bruno Carre - retired, his son did some rallies in the car but not many
Martin Rowe - one off SRTC
Nick Narini      - retired, car sold, dorifto?
Simon Losier - retired? Haven't seen any Losier guys in a long time
Ugo Desgreniers       - ?
Steve Hobbs - ?
Peter Kocandrle      - Pete, what's your excuse?
Marc Bourassa - ?
Martin Donnelly      - was out with broken car but now back with new car
Warren Haywood - broken car/retired
Martin Walter - retired, family was what I was told
Michelle Laframboise - retired from rally, track racing now
Demetris Andreou - retired but I think Besner runs this car now
Andrew Wickline       - ?
Jeffrey Dowell      - ?
Simon Dube - Never seem to see Dube outside quebec.
Patrick Richard      - retired
Peter Thomson      - runs occasionally
Heath Nunnemacher - ?
Grant Riddell - retired, car lives on with Zoli
Ryan Huber - hiatus, sold car, building a new one but out of money (bought house/built shop)
Paul Hartl      - retired
Andrew Kulikowski - ?
Damir Akik - Retired, didn't rally long
Chris Martin - coming back next year seems like
Roy Hopkins - ?
Glen Clarke - one off rally, mainly a targa guy
Maxime Losier - see above re Losiers
Hardy Schmidtke - ?
Frank Lognay - ?
Ian Crerar       - Playing on race tracks too much these days
Richard Burton - retired, briefly was doing GRC
Martin Losier - see above re Losiers
Leonid Urlichich - back though $$ is issue
Alan Ryall      - retired
Jeremy Norris - crashed/bought new car but not running yet, $$?
Steven Friebel - ?
Don Morton - retired
Ryan Nichols - ?
Bryce Baker - active
R. Nuno Pereira - ?
Lance Webb - ?
Sean Burke - ?
Ivan Malo - ?
Alexei Stapinski - retired, family
Mark Biernacki - retired, ?

Clearly there's a large cross section of reasons why people aren't running, lots of money and time issues for sure, also lots of people that have plain disappeared.

Title: Re: Why low entries at Pines?
Post by Dave Cotie on 12/14/17 at 21:35:24

Well let's see - in Ontario
- you can't safety a Rally Car legally
- Most can't get a legal E-test
- Insurance is a major problem

Local folks are getting squeezed out.

Title: Re: Why low entries at Pines?
Post by Peter K. on 12/30/17 at 11:22:36

Pete, what's your excuse?

Ryan, Well said and I like the idea of the list. My excuse is simple; the cost versus the seat time was far too much to justify and second on the list was the issue with insurance/safety. Don't get me wrong, I still think rally is the best motor sport out there but I have since found avenues of getting far more seat time per $.

Lance Webb - ?

Sold his rally car out West as the attrition and cost were too high if i'm not mistaken.

Thank you for the feedback!!!


Title: Re: Why low entries at Pines?
Post by Alexei S on 04/15/18 at 14:45:27

Just to clarify, I wouldn't necessarily say I'm permanently retired. I may consider coming back when the 2 kids are older and I have a better idea of how time and finances look. Right now I can't even get the time to go out and volunteer, much less run. The young one won't even sleep for more than 3 hours at a time :D

Safety/insurance will make that a permanent retirement though if it's still the same situation or worse then when I ran.

Title: Re: Why low entries at Pines?
Post by RPRacing on 10/31/18 at 16:05:17

I've also been on a hiatus due to financial reasons. Having said that, the Insurance/Safety and Etest are all issues for me. The Etest looks as though it may be no more as of April next year thanks to the PC's. Insurance I can deal with through a company in Quebec. Safety I'm hoping to get sorted soon.

Financially, I made the mistake of moving into a more powerful open class car due to the hunger of wanting to try and be competitive with the top guys. If I was to do it again, I'd go a less expensive route, pump gas, lower power etc, 2WD maybe.

It would be really fun to see a bunch of fast drivers in cheap 2WD cars. Kind of like the Suzuki that Pete ran a few years back, where it comes down to the skill of the driver and less about the car.  

There's varying reasons for the decline, one reason is the availability and accessibility of rally cars. If you want a new one you're looking at potentially over 50k easy for a somewhat competitive Subaru. With older cars being retired for various reasons it seems to just be out of reach financially for the common guy who loves motorsport.

This topic could be debated for years, due to so many reasons, but when it comes down to it money is the driving factor for probably 99 percent of people. The sport ain't getting any cheaper, and the divide between the rich and poor in this country is only getting bigger.  

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